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Real Social Dynamics Wiki - HOW TO REALLY PU


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[edit] by Tyler Durden

This is one of the best posts by our beloved red head step child. Might take some time to read but its worth it. Warning: stay focussed and absorb good things from the post and don't get DDBed :-p.

Newsgroups: Subject: How to REALLY PU, actually FOR REAL.. Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 05:36:00 -0500


OK, since I'm half asleep at 5am and in a rambly mood, you guys are getting privileged to the REAL way to PU, as opposed to the way that Destin9 suggests.

I am very pissed off at that article (as seen in my comments in the thread below), and I know it will fuck people up, so I'm typing out how to do REAL street approaches. This will be MESSY cause I am dosing in and out of consciousness.

Alright, I'm very tired but I'll try to sum-up some of the shit from my other posts.. If I sound arrogant or whatever its cause I'm pissed off by reading that Destin9 bullshit, because that Ursula Lidstrom book fucked me up for over 8-months (a book that advocates the exact same thing, although I STILL recommend it on account of its advice on BODYLANGUAGE which is even tighter than GWM, and certain attitudes, although you need to IGNORE the rest of the content)..





You spot a chick you want. Now the most important thing is how you FACE her.

You roll up, and you don't face her UNTIL she is facing YOU. That means, if she is turned totally away from you, you literally TURN YOUR NECK ENTIRELY BACKWARDS while you talk, and ONLY turn when she turns.

Then, as she says stuff that she PERCEIVES as you being impressed by, you THEN turn to face her. This causes her to have the perception that

1) you are not needy/desperate/lame 2) she said something WORTH you staying

Have you ever won some stupid contest for a cracker-jack prize or some shit, and went and claimed it??? Even though if you had already owned it, and forgot it at the store, you never would have gone to even pick it up cause its so LAME.. but still, since you WON it, you go pick it up??? That's what this is like.

Give her the impression that you're only staying to talk because SHE said something that interested you to stay. Again, do this by ONLY turning once she is turning FIRST.

The only exception is you can do little tests, like turning quickly towards her, to SEE if she'll BITE and turn herself.


Then, after you get that, THEN start mirroring her and all that shit. Mirroring is FANTASTIC for getting deep rapport.

Finally, when you phase shift, use very sexual body language.

The sequence in my "gear shifting" post was: -C&F until she tries to get rapport with "what's your name" or some variant -rapport -phase shift

So you turn away and make her TRY to get rapport with this cocky/funny guy, then you turn towards her normally, THEN when you phase shift you do the sexy body language (EC, triangular gazing, sidelong glances, lip licking, hair sifting, open palms, soft tonality, etc etc)


If you have AI (approach invitation), then it is OK to use a more direct bodylanguage, or even the "hi" opener.

On warm approaches, feel free to go into phase shift bodylanguage right away, if she's comfortable with it.


For non-club PU (my absolute expertise, although my club game is getting kinda tight non-club is still way better), experiment with PROJECTING VALUE in your opener. That means that what you do/say projects VALUE to the chick, right off the opener. Some things of value to chicks are:

-fun -imaginative -funny -intriguing -frame-setting (sets challenges right off the opener) -opinion -kino/dominance-establishing -role playing

Here are some QUICK examples, although I could go on ALL DAY on this.

FUN: "Hey, check out that kid on Santa's lap.. wow, remember when x,y,z childhood memories??"

IMAGINATIVE: "whoa, that is a NICE aquarium.. look at that.. OMG, we should totally hit up the bio-chem department, and get shrunk down like BARBIE AND KEN.. then we could swim around behind that coral right there.. see that.. and totally go on like an underwater adventure like in the Little Mermaid.. don't get any ideas though, Ken dolls do not come FULLY EQUIPPED" (this reverses the frame at the end as well as an added benefit)

FUNNY: (pick up the LAMEST CD in the store, like something totally ridiculous) "OMG.. OMG.. this CD is fucking A-W-E-S-O-M-E..... pause for effect while she is gauging if you're serious...... hahahhahahahah" (so you just break out laughing, but not too obnoxious.. laughter is CONTAGIOUS, so take advantage)

You can use the same formula with CAT FOOD in a grocery store, or WHATEVER.. Humour = stuff that doesn't go together.

INTRIGUING: "I just saw the most fascinating thing.. In this newspaper article (whatever, Jamie Lee Curtis story about her fatness or whatever)" (Ricki Lake even qualifies under this category, although I don't use it myself)

FRAME-SETTING: "damn.. I-AM-SICK of this cafeteria food.. do you know how to cook? no?? ok we're broken up then, I'm going to find a woman who can cook.. (while she cracks up, talk to another chick)... OK, so you can't cook.. well what else do you have going for you??? are you adventurous" (transition to Swingcat style qualifying)

Again, you're qualifying her right off the OPENER. This is very POWERFUL.. more than stupid "hi, I want to meet you"

OPINION: "do girls think that David Bowie is hot?" (better than "hi", because she actually ENJOYS giving her opinion on stupid shit like this)

KINO/DOMINANCE-ESTABLISHING: wack her with a magazine... tap her.. as she walks towards you, make funny faces, and if she returns them then pretend to punch her while you grab her around her waist and start walking with her "you're cuuuuute.. you'll make a nice new girlfriend I think.." (Zan style line).. Follow this with QUALIFYING "wait a sec though, can you cook" and you are MOTHERFUCKING IIIIIINNNNNN LIKE FLYYYYNN BABY!!!!

ROLEPLAYING: This is my ABSOLUTE TIGHTEST mall opener. This is SO FUCKING TIGHT I GUARANTEE nobody has tighter than this in a clothing store.

Grab a stupid jacket off the rack, and say "whoa, this is SWEET.. I should try this on NOW.. check this out.." .... then start moving to the mirror, and hopefully she'll start to come.. then GRAB BACK another jacket, the SAME ONE that you have. So now you BOTH try on the stupid jacket, and look in the mirror as you both look THE SAME. Put your arm around her like its for a silly-picture, and look in the mirror together.

Notice that this is EXTREMELY POWERFUL, because she is looking at the TWO OF YOU TOGETHER, wearing the SAME STUPID SHIT. It is ROLEPLAYING that you are like together or something already, like a stupid couple.

Then say "we should STEAL THESE", and watch her reaction, as you either playfully go along plotting how to do it, or she says NO. If she says "no", then GRAB HER STUFF, and PRETEND like you're running out the door with it..

She'll tackle you, and then you say, "know what?? i know a better way to make $$$.. I need a RICH girl.." and start QUALIFYING HER, the same way as the "girl who cooks" qualifier from the FRAME-SETTING opener from above.


OK, for mid-game, you have to GAUGE how much C&F and various other attracters she needs, in order for HER to try to get rapport with YOU. KEEP FUCKING WITH HER UNTIL *SHE* TRIES TO GET RAPPORT.

That means, do stuff like: -lying game -kiss game -CUBE/SFields/4Questions -calling her "bad" -calling her "powerpuff girl" -a billion other Cocky&Playful things

I do ALL of these C&F. The lying game I use to tease her and ask her funny questions. Kiss game is just PURE COCKY and works AMAZING (read post TD&26 vs. some lame club chicks). CUBE I make fun of her with, and qualify her.

THEN DO STUFF THAT IS F-U-N: -make her spin around and asking her if she knows how to DANCE (this on the street) -make her TEACH YOU HER DANCE MOVES right on the street -try on CLOTHES together -teach her an ESP trick, and use it to FOOL PEOPLE together -poke her and tickle her -steal something from her and make her try to wrestle it from you


Now ONLY AFTER you've done this stuff, will she say: "what's your name?" "where do you work?"

etc etc etc..

What you do is SHIFT GEARS SLOWLY.

You answer with "GUESS" for the first TWO questions or so, and THEN you just ask ONLY what she asks you.

HER: what's your name YOU: guess (but now switched OUT of C&F tonality into NORMAL tonality, so its still SWITCHING gears, but NOT TOO FAST since you're using "guess") HER: tom YOU: no HER: cliff YOU: no.. HER: whaaaaat???? YOU: TylerDurden.. what's yours? HER: HBslut YOU: cool.. I like that.. (compliment is FINE now, since she's interested) HER: what do you do? YOU: guess.. (NON-C&F tone.. NORMAL TONE) HER: hahah.. ummm ok.. accountant.. YOU: haha.. no I'm definetely not that.. I'm (x-realjob)



G-E-T === R-A-P-P-O-R-T

I MEAN it.. Get DEEP rapport with the chick, so she fucking LOVES you and feels CONNECTED to you.

If you have laid the GROUNDWORK with the COOL opener (like one of the ones I suggested), and the C&F shit that projects the value that you are COCKY and FUN and PLAYFUL and CHALLENGING, then she will LOVE and RELISH getting to know you.

      • AGAIN, the cocky shit is to get from POINT A (indifferent to you) to POINT B (attracted to you). If you have APPROACH INVITATION YOU DO NOT NEED THIS STUFF AND IT MAY POSSIBLY PUSH THE SEDUCTION BACKWARDS.

If you have AI, you CAN use the "hi" and all that bullshit, to great success.

The point is, though, GET RAPPORT. This is KEY. When you do a PURE C&F sarge, you must either FUCK CLOSE, or accept the FLAKE. This is because she comes out of state IMMEDIATELY after you leave, since you have NO RAPPORT. VERY FEW CHICKS will actually meet you for a 'get-together' if you have no rapport, no matter HOW MUCH C&F you did, and how much she was loving it.

FORMULA = C&F to get ATTRACTION, conversation/geniune to get RAPPORT.

Make her EARN the genuine rapport building conversation by showing you how PLAYFUL she is.

The SAME conversation that would have been LAME had you not laid down the GROUNDWORK, will seem CHARGED. TRUST ME, go TRY IT.



GUNWITCH METHOD CLOSE: Use TRIANGULAR GAZING (someone should post a LINK to a site with the explanation, cause I'm too tired to explain this in detail). Look at her lips and eyes, lips and eyes, lips and eyes.. Tilt your head, lick your lips, touch her hair, lips and eyes, lips and eyes, lips and eyes, move closer, move closer, lips and eyes, KISS.

PHASE SHIFT CLOSER ROUTINE: Are you intuitive? OK.. Are you intelligent? OK.. Do you understand to follow directions? OK.. Give me your hands..

Take her hands, and run some ring based routine, or palm-reading or some BULLSHIT.. Then talk about soul-gazing and romans and how they knew emotional crap.. Then talk about emotions and it being ALL YOU NEED IN LIFE, and do The EVOLUTION PHASE SHIFT KISS CLOSE (check the Style/CPowles archive for it.. you grab her hair and say its a natural spot and feels good, and to do it to you, etc etc)

THEN, either ISOLATE, or talk softly and fun about FUTURE GET TOGETHER.

If you don't isolate and same-day f-close, FUCK THE #CLOSE and get a MEET with the chick. Maybe get the #, but REMEMBER that she may have a LIVE IN BOYFRIEND or HUSBAND, so do NOT push the #. Get the MEET, and make it CONVENIENT for yourself to get there on the chance that she flakes.

For meets, I suggest taking her somewhere that is absolutely COST FREE, and gets her adreneline going. Try taking her to a strip where they have sexy/outrageous clothing, and try it on with her.


Destin9's way of PU'ing does not provide you with the chance to PROJECT VALUE to the chick, outside of your LOOKS.

Basically, Destin9 wants you to just go up, confident, say "hi", and cross your fingers. The ONLY good thing about it I guess is that you had the balls to approach, which is KINDA good, but still not usually enough for ELITE HOT CHICKS.

The confidence that guys like Twentysix or I have now, after 4 nights per week or NON STOP SARGING is probably enough, because we can FOLLOW it with TIGHT STUFF and have a PUA AURA. But for ANY guy who hasn't laid many many chicks yet, or hung out non-stop with a guy who has and modelled him, this approach is BULLSHIT.

This way, you project yourself as FUN/EXCITING/CHALLENGING/CONFIDENT.. Plus, by kiss closing by the end of the first encounter, you really set the frame for an early lay.

Just remember that PARTY GIRLS can OMIT the RAPPORT, while LIBRARIAN GIRLS can omit large chunks of the C&F/ATTRACTION. Girls who are IN BETWEEN can just take some of EACH.

What I've written here is the REAL SHIT, FIELD TESTED, and actually REAL.

Use the Destin9 way, but ONLY AFTER you have ESTABLISHED VALUE on yourself. THEN do it her way. Her way let's the GIRL CHOOSE what your value is, based on your LOOKS primarily (though I suppose a LITTLE BIT by your confidence, since you did approach and all, but still mostly by looks when it comes to the hotties)

Fuck all this other bullshit, this is HOW TO SARGE.

Good night, time for TylerD to go to sleep after a long night of sarging. I am fucking exhausted, and apologize for this post probably being shitty.. The content should still be good, if de-cyphered. I just really wanted to type this up on account of that lame-ass Destin9 shit that I read, that fucked me up so bad for 8 months when I read the same shit from some other FEMALE seduction expert.


Newsgroups: Subject: How to REALLY PU, actually FOR REAL.. Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 06:43:00 -0500

On 2/3/03 12:21:00 AM, n3rv1 wrote: >TD you are a self-proclaimed >master.... yet you don't post >any lay-reports. What gives?

OK tiger, settle down..

like I've said many times, I don't post shit about my personal life.. stop being a little bitch, just because your life is going shit right now, that doesn't give you any beef with me.. you're projecting nothing but negativity on to the board lately (same with MISSIONS board), and its only because of your LSE that other people's success hits you on an emotional level.. You know that I never proclaimed being the master (that would be Mystery or Rick H probably), and you're just misinterpreting me because you're a little bitch who has nothing going for him in life, and its IN YOUR HEAD that a post without softners makes you feel bad, because the person typing it sounds REASSURED with themselves, which doesn’t fit your model of the world.. in reality, if you’d get your life together, you’d have no problem feeling the same way, and it wouldn’t set off your LSE alarm (in fact it would be easier to read a post that was just straight to the point).. but instead you’d rather I didn’t just post what was on my mind, and you’d rather something that meshed better with your headcase problems.. you’re like a LSE chick.. you have no chance of ever having a high-profile job like I do because of your lifestyle, so you have no reason to care if people dig this shit up down the road.. you’d actually probably be even proud of being known as a scheming-plotting-womanizer, because then at least you’d be SOMETHING.. or maybe its that you think that MRSEX4UNYC shouldn't have posted either, since he didn't have LRs for the same reason..

whatever.. if you really cared for legit reasons, you would have emailed or asked Paps.. not asked out of nowhere with the "self-proclaimed" shit..

Either way, its my choice to post what I want, and I don't owe shit all explanation or accounts of my sexlife to some internet goof from Wisconsin.. if you're that desperate to know who has the stronger game, you or I, then go ask your wingman Paps who knows both our games very well IRL.

Get well, and post something USEFUL.

LowRider wrote:

"OTOH, when I switched to the standard "Hi, whats going on?" with a smile and GOOD EC, like you said, it gets you into CONVERSATION. CHICKS WILL NOT BRUSH YOU OFF IF YOU SAY "Hi" BECAUSE IT IS FUCKING RUDE IF THEY DO. If they DO, then you can DEFINETLY bust on them for doing that."


This is a VERY important STICKING POINT in your GAME LowRider, and its GREAT that you posted this because once you read what I'm going to write you'll close alot more chicks.

The 'hi' opener is flawed BECAUSE of what you PERCEIVE as its best attribute. When you go up and say 'hi', you always get a good response, because the chick will most often feel inclined to be socially-courteous.. Even if you bust on her for not being sociable, if you don't have the C&F frame down well enough to open using it, then you won't be successful in that kind of busting on her anyway.. It'll just trigger her guilt, and make her chat you out of obligation.

This is what you DO NOT want.

(the ONLY exception being if your game is HEAVILY SS/NLP based, and you can turn her on using patterns and hypnotic demos, which is not typically a good route to take as a primary MO)

You want her SHIT TESTING you, so that you can use shit testing evasive measures to prove yourself to her, and get her TURNED ON.

That's one of the main BENEFITS to doing QUALIFYING right off the gate. You're even better using the KISS GAME at the VERY START of the PU, just to set that FRAME.

Here's an example of a fuckup that fellow ASFer 10magnet and I had tonight, PU'ing a stripper where 10magnet works (he works at a strip club).

10: hey.. do girls think that David Bowie is hot? HER: I dunno.. I like (something here that I forget) TD: oh dude.. this is a BAD GIRL.. HER: ha.. you know me 5 seconds after meeting me

(this is NOT GOOD AT ALL, because she's not ENGAGED sexually.. again, her agreement is NOT GOOD for the PU.. she is trying to CHAT US, which is NOT GOOD.. but watch how we turn it around)

TD: yeah right.. whatever.. you're like PG13 bad.. you can't hang with us unless you're FOR REAL.. are you adventurous? HER: haha, this is a challenge.. and if I was dumb enough to fall for it, I'd probably hook up with you guys (this chick is clearly WISE to the game, as she is a stripper) 10: oh, so I guess you won't be at the company picnic tommorow? HER: hahaha.. in WINTER?? 10: yeah, for real.. its at Nathan Phillips Square, tommorow at 3pm.. TD: yeah.. seriously.. show up.. WE'LL *BE-THERE*.. HER: hahahahha..

Then we STALL, and she's like "ummmm.. Monday tommorow eh? what are you guys up to" or some shit like that.. (this is REINITIATING CONVO, which is a strong IOI coming from a chick like this.. unfortunately we weren't really "sarging" since it was unexpected as well as 2-on-1, so we didn't exploit it like we normally would)

We saw the bartender at a restaurant later in the night, and he told us that she liked us apparently.. Had we just taken her answer to the David Bowie question, I can tell you from experience, there would have been ZERO attraction.

Point was, I could have gone into qualifying her for making enough $$$ from her job to support me, and shit like that (this I've done a million times and it works)..

Then we'd KEEP DOING THAT, to keep the frame of a PU. THEN and ONLY THEN, do you move into rapport building.


OK, here is the problem with the CONVERSION FALLACY on ASF:

Guys start PU'ing women, but don't f_close them.. So they use certain lines that get GOOD REACTIONS, but not LAYS. Then the POST ABOUT THEM, saying a bunch of shit about how its a money line.. They don't CLOSE, so they extrapolate that it must be good, just because the REACTION they got was good, even though it didn't convert to a LAY. This is like wearing a CLOWN SUIT to a club - it gets good REACTIONS but no SEX.

An example of that is when an uglier guy says "I'm an ass model" as an answer to the work question. This is a GOOD line in terms of REACTION, but BAD in terms of CONVERSION TO LAYS. (some guys DO pull it off really well though.. I'm just GENERALIZING)

If you're ugly, its just REMINDING her of your shortcomings, and being a CLOWN. This is like if you asked a FAT CHICK what she does, and she says a "lingerie model".. this just REMINDS you of her nastiness even more..

So the "HI" opener is yet another CONVERSION FALLACY on ASF. YES, it can help you lay chicks who give you APPROACH INVITATION, or chicks who are on the SAME looks level as you. But it doesn't set the PICKUP FRAME on SUPER HOTTIES, the way that the VALUE CONVEYING openers that I've put examples of do.

If I were to do a test, where I'd spend 1 hour per day for a year, using "hi" as an opener on HB9+ chicks, and 1 hour per day using a challenging/qualifying opener, the result would be roughly something like:

HI OPENER: -6 chicks opened and convo initiated / 0 snubs -0 chicks successfully PU'ed - either fclose or non-flake meet (maybe one every few weeks) -5 HB9 chicks per year

QUALIFYING OPENER: -2 chicks opened and convo initiated / 4 snubs -1 chick PU'ed (2 days per week) -100 HB9+ chicks per year (maybe you fuck 20 of them who the meet goes well, or who you don't screen for personality flaws)

So your SP, IMO, is that you associate OPENING with SEXUAL INTERACTIONS, when the two are NOT related. Notice that you're AWESOME with PU right now (according to Twentysix), but you're not LAYING many chicks?? This is the CONVERSION problem at work, and its an extremely common problem.

Think on it.. give me your thoughts once you've tested it.


Newsgroups: Subject: How to REALLY PU, actually FOR REAL.. Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 08:30:00 -0500

more delusionally tired thoughts on this...

I'm thinking that the way that I do things IN CLUBS will not work on a REAL TRUE BLUE 10.. A stripper or aspiring actress, YES.. but not like a SERIOUS celebrity, like Alyssa Milano or some shit like that..

the way I figure it, is that the way I do things is extremely powerful even for 9.9s.. but for a CELEB chick, like the Cosmo chick I sarged the other day, my approach would have failed had it been in CLUBS, because of the social-proof based atmosphere..

I think that PURE MM (13 steps) would be the ONLY way of doing it..

As of right now, my club MO is different than 13 steps, because when I start CHALLENGING, the ALPHA chick of the group steps up, and her friends see that she may be interested, so they don't cockblock..

I keep them in the fold with shit like "you are the nice ones.. I'm hanging with you guys" (while I tease the target for being "bad").. LIKEWISE, I do the KISS GAME, and say "she is soooo gullible" to the obstacles, while I kiss-game the target, to INCLUDE the obstacles in the funny prank I'm playing, since they're all JEALOUS of the target anyway..

But for the most part, I currently focus LESS on the obstacles than the target, because this style is DISARMING in and of itself.. because you are saying YOU CANNOT HANG WITH ME, the obstacles don't cockblock the same way that they normally would...

so the approach relies LESS on social proof in terms of the obstacles LOVING YOU, and MORE on the obstacles not getting in the way, thus IMPLICITLY APPROVING of you..

STILL, this may NOT be ENOUGH to sarge a LEGITIMATE ESTABLISHED CELEBRITY, so I theorize that I do NOT currently have what it takes to PU a celeb in a club.. It worked on the Dahm Triplets ONLY because they are basically MENTALLY RETARDED, and the entourage, though thick, was still MANAGABLE..

still, an awesome approach for even the total hotties in any club.. but not for ELITE HOTTIES, by my projection..


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